Sean Harden Interview

Here's the second, and more interesting, half of my conversation with Sean Harden, held on Thursday, April 17. I'll be posting the full interview transcript for paid subscribers tomorrow.

Also tomorrow morning, for everyone, I'll have a preview of the agenda the board will tackle at 3 p.m. during its April meeting. For now, enjoy these comments from Chicago Board of Education President Sean Harden.

Kelleher: Let's get into some nitty-gritty. How many hours a week is Sean Harden putting into the work of school board president?

Harden: It's full-time, 40-50 hours a week easily. I think the president has a responsibility to be pretty conversant on most of these things at a granular level so that I can serve as a support to the other board members and offer some guidance on the most prudent way to go when that's not always clear. Also managing the politics, because we have this thing called politics in Chicago. I'm not sure if you knew about that.

Kelleher: Maybe I've heard of that, yeah.

Harden: So it takes some time. You have such strong, confident leaders on this board. In the district office, you know, this is the engine that makes everything move.

You can't really do drop-ins, not at this level. Maybe at some point when we didn't have so much that we have to contend with in a short period of time, you know, you could maybe drop in a couple times a week.

Kelleher: Do you feel like the load is going to lighten up a little bit after you all vote on the CTU contract?

Harden: I think you could pretend that would be the case, but the reality is that's not the case. We're already planning for next school year. We do have the efforts of identifying our next leader afoot. So I don't really see it lightening up any time soon.

Kelleher: I get that. Earlier, you were saying how important it is to stay connected with the mayor's office. I'd love to know more about how that works logistically. I've heard you all are meeting as much as weekly. How does that work?

Harden: You know, we don't operate in a vacuum. I'm learning more of this as we go along, but there's a huge amount of support that we get from the city. You've been tracking CPS for a while, so you know the interdependency that exists, in large part because it was once mayorally-controlled and that's how it was constructed. Something as small as we do work and we have to pull permits, that's to the tune of about a million dollars a year. Historically that was waived for the district.

So, as I've unpacked more and more, I see that there are [interconnections] beyond just a pension payment, right? There are capital projects [the city] support[s] through TIF proceeds, crossing guards, grants to cover special programs. There's just a whole host of things that historically the city has been covering. So, beyond the obvious of [CPS] being an agency within the city and there needing to be coordination, there's a fiscal dependency the district has on the city.

Those two reasons alone say to me that there needs to be continual communication and understanding. I don't see any downside in having that level of collaboration and communication.

Kelleher: And then, how do you communicate information from that relationship to the rest of the board, particularly across the elected-appointed divide?

Harden: I'm glad you stated it that way, because it's an external myth. This is a good opportunity for me to quell that. The division is only based on how we came here, but it's not based on what's keeping us here. We're not defined by what brought us here. We're defined by what's keeping us here.

Everybody comes to the board with various perspectives, right? my perspective is coming from having a governmental background, being a business owner, an entrepreneur, being a 20-year practitioner in community economic development, and having worked in the district. That gives me a very specific lens. Very different from a 30-year teacher, right? And so our perspectives are going to be different.

 That translates into an informed final decision, and you don't have to seek agreement. whether or not you were elected or appointed, the guiding North Star is what is in the best interest of students. As you can see right there on my board [points to the whiteboard by his desk], "Remember the why." Leading with that. Reminding us that this is not as much as function of me expressing my perspective as me lending my perspective to where the consensus can land.

That's particularly challenging for me, in that the president doesn't vote. My job is to help reach consensus even if I don't agree with it. It forces the president to come at everything very open-minded, very objective, just trying to lead us to a point where we can make consensus and move forward.

Kelleher: We have two big topics to cover. One is the superintendent search and the other is how the board is approaching Springfield. I've talked to a few board members. I called one up who said, "I'm in Springfield," so I know people are going, but what is the strategy?

Harden: So obviously, all things lead to Springfield, right? Just yesterday, I was meeting with some of our board [and district] leadership around what our strategy is going to look like going forward. Are there additional attention and resources we need to put into that space to make sure that CPS interests are being represented? That's one piece that we're evaluating.

Two, as I said before, this is not a run-of-the-mill board. A lot of folks come here with pre-existing relationships. They are familiar with that landscape, and much of their life's work involves working with state leaders and legislators to help advance the work that they are doing at the community level. So this is just a continuation of that work. So I appreciated the anxiousness to take that and use it on behalf of the board. It's what a board member who's worth their salt does, right? They want to bring [in] their pre-existing relationships and networks.

This is a complicated matter, and I think the challenge for us is to pause on the natural desire to jump in and try to just get done, and then to be much more collaborative here so that we can go downstate with the unified message. All right, so one that's reflective of partnership with the unions, with the mayor's office, and with CPS. That level of alignment makes us strong. It makes it more difficult to discount the ask, and quite frankly, it's a good exercise in helping us to refine what our priorities are. So that's where we're going to be spending a lot of attention.

I think the other thing, too, is in our new roles and capacities, just establishing relationships. So it begins with building rapport before the ask. Know who I am. Here's the landscape as it exists, and inviting partnership as opposed to demanding this is what you should do, right? Everyone has their own constituencies, and many of the folks have their own perspective of Chicago, right?

So we need to dispel any myths or misgivings that any of the downstate legislators may have about the city of Chicago and our efforts here. I think we need to do some relationship-building there so that they have confidence in the board and its ability to execute its responsibility as fiduciaries.

That's the basis for everything. That's why lots of deals get done on the golf course and in social settings. It's because the rapport is established, and you get people to do business with people. So it's not state legislator and board president, it's this person and that person. They come to know what each other's goals are, find that commonality.

I just find in most cases, if you approach it that way, people are not just mean-spirited. They're operating off of information that they have, be it right or wrong. , I don't care what side you're on, downstate, blue, red, whatever it is, everyone wants and appreciates the importance of education. Right. No one wants to see any student left without the resources to be successful, right? The question becomes, how do we get there together, right? And so if we start with that as our end game and let's build a relationship, then we're much more likely to find that common ground where we can be supportive and garner that support.

Kelleher: Have you started building those relationships? I'm particularly thinking, has anyone had conversations yet with Representative Curtis Tarver, since he has the bill proposing to bring back the School Finance Authority? [This was the external financial oversight body that had final say over CPS budgets from 1980 to 2010. It was created due to severe fiscal problems the district had in the 1970s.]

Harden: Yeah, definitely. So early on, as you can imagine, I began questioning whether or not I was really the right guy for this role, since it's such a big role and demands so much. But it turns out the relationships I've developed over the years are really paying big dividends now. I have pre-existing relationships with Rep. Tarver. As I just said, that goes a long way because we know each other personally, so the bridge is already there for us to talk in our respective roles.

Kelleher: Right. There's something already established.

Harden: So I began early on just working through what I call my personal network tree, just to see who are the critical people I should be meeting with. That's my ongoing responsibility and job, right? The first three or four months have been just dealing with what's right in front of me.

We'll also be intentional about meeting with key stakeholders across the city and the state, and I'll continue to do so in the coming months. I have meetings set up with key leadership, and I'm going to ask for as many opportunities as I can just to meet. Again, my approach is not to have an ask the first time we sit down. It's just to lay out the vision, what my goals are, and quite frankly, to see where there are opportunities where I could be helpful, right, because it's not just a one-way scenario. Maybe [there's] information or things that you need from us to make a more informed decision.

Kelleher: Thank you. So let's turn to the search for a new district leader for CPS.You've hired a firm. The board has resolved that the next leader will have a superintendent's license. What is the plan from here? 

Harden: Robust community engagement. we're really going to take our time making sure that we invite the input of the users, right, and so that becomes, you know, critical. We don't want to make, although I'd be comfortable in saying that we have a very good representation of the board of parents, educators, business leaders, community-based organizations. It's really a diverse group that if it was just up to them, it wouldn't be a bad thing because it's a diverse representation, but we all know better, and we appreciate there's some elements that we may not be sensitive to, and so the approach is going to be having, you know, very direct opportunities for community to provide input on the important aspects of that leader, and we'll do so in a number of ways through open board meetings.

As you know, through OMA [the Open Meetings Act], the convening of any more than seven board members requires that we have an open meeting. And this is so big that just about all of our board members want to have a direct involvement in it, so we'll be governing ourselves through that platform, right, so it'll be a very open and transparent process in terms of where we are at any given time. There'll be discourse directly with the board. We'll talk, you know, the confidential matters in closed session, but aside from that, the whole process and how we are approaching it and where we are, it's going to be very public and shared real-time. I'm excited about how we'll be using technology to connect with communities and making sure that we're garnering that input so you don't feel the obligation to have to show up to a community meeting in order for your perspective to be heard.

 We want to be intentional about using technology so that we can, you know, capture that input as well. 

Kelleher: Have you been working with Kids First [Chicago] on this? I'm curious just because they did very robust public engagement on the district's new school accountability policy. 

Harden: we're thoughtful about all of these stakeholders and the role that they play and we'll be inviting input, you know, through surveys, through roundtable discussions. I mean, we're going to be very thoughtful. We're not going to speed through that process at all. We want to make it, and it's not performative, right?

 We really want to do that in a solid way. And so it will include folks like that and other key stakeholders. And as I said before, and I'm going to keep coming back to this, it invites an opportunity for people who may not see CPS as something that they should care about directly. But if I invite your input, the board invites your input on who this leader is, now you have a little skin in it, right? You feel like you've had some input on what this is because in one form or the other, our educational system shapes what our neighborhoods and our society looks like.

 And so I really want to also use it as an opportunity to engage the corporate community, invite their input as well, on what this looks like. So it's an exciting time for us. We have a subcommittee that's been formed. It's been working very diligently you know, laying these steps out that I've talked about. In fact, there's a meeting on this morning to talk to you further about that work alone. So you'll hear more and see more about what, how that activity translates. You know, obviously we'll be doing a press release and, you know, laying out, you know, what our steps are and how we will continue to invite community input on it. Great. I am curious since you are planning this pretty intensive and unrushed community engagement process, are you under the assumption that you're going to be meeting an interim while that process goes on? So I think just for us to plan for such and then if we're lucky enough to do that transition, that'd be great. But I think, you know, history has proven that you should have an interim strategy that offers the stabilizing force while you bring someone in. And so, you know, there's a opportunity to really set our new leader up for success and not just falling all the way into the deep end. Just strategically, the thoughtful thing to do is plan for an interim and then have that person serve in supporting the transition into the long-term leader.

Kelleher: That makes sense. And then, what does all this do? I mean, CPS just approved a five-year strategic plan last fall. 

Harden: Sure. 

Kelleher: And a lot of folks are particularly interested in the Black Student Success Plan. I know there's a resolution coming on establishing the Black Student Achievement Committee for the board. I went to a Black Student Success Plan community forum, and it doesn't seem like there's a real tight connection between what's happening with the plan and what's going to happen with the committee. And, we're about to get a new superintendent. So how are we gonna decide what to keep from the current strategic plan and tighten it so that it moves forward continuously, you know what I'm saying?

Harden: Sure. So I think the first thing is just to recognize that plans inherently are living, breathing documents, right? They're meant to be a baseline for which everyone kind of coalesces around and recognizes that this is our North Star that's going to guide us. The means and mechanisms that we use to get there are going to change based on factors as they arise, right? So I think the important part is to make sure that we're centered on the outcomes and then recalibrating based on the new environment, right, as you laid out. So when the five-year plan was conceived, it wasn't being driven by a 21-person board, right? So the disentanglement will be another element that will, in one way or another, contribute to how the district operates, right? And so I'm laying all that out because inherent in any plan is going to have to have some ability to be flexible and to, you know, move with the times.

 So you mentioned Jitu is one of, you know, very strong leader on the board, has real strong commitment and convictions to that particular body of work. So I have no, you know, doubt that the alignment that is needed between the board and what's happening in the community will occur. I think what we're seeing is a desire to have it, but there hasn't really been structured leadership and a direction. So that will be his task, he's going to chair the committee, and I'll be part of his task is to work through that alignment. There's a very strong, you know, reputation in the community. So I don't foresee that as being a challenge.

 He's very well respected and will take into consideration the work that's already been done and move in the direction that ultimately achieves the outcome. So this is all part of the, you know, learning curve, if you will. This is, you know, when the old and new come together, some stuff shakes loose and others, other elements get born. And so the same will happen here. I think the important part is that the importance of the work is not going to be lost. And it's being undergird with the right leadership and will take on the shape that it needs in order to achieve the outcomes. With respect to the five-year strategic plan, it's much of the same. We're not going to throw that out, all right, and start anew.

 It becomes a great foundational point. Lots of thoughtful work was put into it. We have brilliant people in the district that really pulled together what is in the best interest of students. You could see it in the different facets of it. There's one area that I'd like to see it be more robust, and that's the use of artificial intelligence and technology, and how we are thoughtfully integrating that into our work, into the curriculum, and making sure that our students and teachers, for that matter, are using the technology in a way that helps us really advance our efforts towards our goals. So if anything, I think that's an example of how where it started, that wasn't contemplated, but it has the ability to be integrated and then make it that much more robust and responsive to real time. 

Kelleher: Gotcha. So if we're thinking about long-term vision, we've kind of circled around the subject of the pension payment has come up a few times. What is your long-term vision for the district and the city, how they're going to cooperate around it? I mean, obviously, it looks like we're not paying it this year, but what happens in the future? 

Harden: So, you know, I'll just start with just a recognition that we do have an obligation right to pay our pro-rata share. I think the issue becomes... 

Kelleher: I mean, I would say that's contested. 

Harden: Well, I think the question was, what was my vision?

Kelleher: So you are on Team CPS Should Pay the MEABF Pension, 100%. 

Harden: Yeah, and it's borne out of a couple of things. Number one is, there's an IGA that laid it out, right? You know, we're going to provide $300 million plus, whatever the number was, in TIF surplus, and the expectation is you'll be making this pension payment, right? So, you know, however you debate that, there was some semblance of an agreement that laid that out, you know, so the City Council had that as the outcome.

Kelleher: Right, that was City Council's expectation.

Harden: Okay, and so for me, you start with the integrity of what was the basis of that agreement, right? So, I think it's important to hold true to whatever the integrity was on that agreement, despite the fiscal challenge, because it wasn't a function of, where if we are in the black, then we'll do it, right?

 So, I think we have to just be thoughtful in that way, make a commitment, see through to it. It then sets you up in a much better position, at least from my vantage point, to be able to talk to the City about increasing the appropriations going forward. Okay. Right, but if I leave you in a lurch, then you're less likely to come through, for me, on the other side. It's just, to me, that's just kind of basic one-on-one, right? There was a need on the city's end to meet its obligations, and again, we don't operate in a vacuum. You know, their inability to have a balanced budget has bonding implications that then impact the entire city, right? And so, you know, in that vein, you know, we would be hoping to first meet the IGA obligation, meet the obligation, or the understanding that City Council had, won't be leaving the city in this precarious situation. Thus, now when it's time for the district not to just get a pro-rata share of tip proceeds based on a statute, whatever surplus, I don't know what the exact number is, I think 52%. 

Kelleher: Oh, yeah, it's like 52% of whatever surplus.

Harden: Whatever surplus. But as I look at next year, I need more than the minimums, right? I need everything maxed out. I need every, you know, opportunity to either save me from inheriting an expense or giving me the cash to cover it. Both are the same to me, right? But how do I set us up to have that conversation? How do I put the City Council leadership in the best position to hear our requests for additional, not be well beyond what would just happen in the normal course of a year? So it's looking at that globally, right? I think is how we continue to have to look at these things.

 Because we can't, we don't have tax levying authority, so we don't have the ability to remedy these things on our own yet, right? So that I think that's the other piece, is having the support of the city, this kind of ability to go down and shift legislation that does give us the ability to have that tax levying authority. I think people freak out when you say that, but I will argue that when people understand where their dollars are going and how it's going to show up in classrooms to make these resources available, I think you will get a different outcome in terms of, I think part of the pushback when you talk about taxation, is that there is an agreement with how you're going to use my money, right? I can't really see it show up in ways that impact me day to day. And so, you know, to have a specific ability to do it just for the direct benefit of CPS and its ability to provide those resources for students, I think is another, it's a different option that we'll have to see how residents respond to it, but I think that's something that should exist. But we need to have that level of collaboration in order for that to come to fruition.

 So that's why I say that the whole budget issue, the whole pension issue, is something that we're going to have to continue to continue with. It's a real thing. We need to figure out how do we land there in a way that doesn't put undue, onerous stress on the district, but also respects the partnership that we want to have with the city. 

Kelleher: My very last question for you is, in two years, how will you know that this new venture, transitional board, move toward an elective school board, how will you know that this has been a success? 

Harden: So, I think we're, from my estimation, we're already seeing the levels of success that we'll see for two years. And I'll give you a couple examples. One is, Boston Consulting Group did a wonderful kind of analysis, provided recommendations for how this board will work, right, and operated off of a certain set of assumptions.

Here's how the committee structure should look. Here's how you take best practices from other board proceedings and bring it all together so that this thing can work, right. Some of it, I mean, it was wonderful in offering framework, but some of it in practice does not play out, right. So, I would count as a success the ability to assess that and then change it, right. So, we'll continue to do that, right. And I think the other thing is what we'll see is that an appreciation from the board on what it means to be flexible during this time, right. Not being rigid or having an expectation or for shortcoming happens on the district side or amongst a board member is that we are supportive of each other and recognize it's all part of the work that we're charged with and being this kind of national model of how it can work, right.

Lastly, the way that it will show up is in the classrooms, right. At the end of the day, students shouldn't even know. Right. If we've done our job, they won't even have any clue that there's been a difference, that all of this stuff has happened. It should not impact them. That's how we will know success, is that at the school level, everything is humming right along.